In a recent post, the anti-noise groups claim to pro-music.
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The planned press conference on the steps of City Hall didn't tke place earlier this week, but a coalition of neighborhood associations have released what they call "Seven Essential Items" for a New Orleans noise ordinance. In the announcement posted at NoiseNola.wordpress.com, coalition chair Nathan Chapman is quoted as saying:
A noise regulation system that is fair and functional is actually pro music. It protects the health and hearing of our musicians and it allows a higher quality, more enjoyable listening experience.
It's one thing to want to limit noise in New Orleans, but to claim to be pro-music? Are members of the coalition asking us to believe that when residents complained about noise at neighborhood venues, that they were doing so on behalf of the poor musicians? That when Quarter residents who live near Bourbon Street complain, that they're worried about the sad tourists from Wichita who'd enjoy the version of "Mustang Sally" so much more if the PA were only quieter?
Elsewhere in the post, Val Exnicios, president of Algiers Neighborhood Presidents Council, said, “As New Orleanians, music is part of our DNA. We respect the spontaneity of a secondline [sic] and treasure our homegrown musicians. But serious musicians, event organizers and club owners work hard to reward us with wonderful melodies at sensible times with proper volumes, because their talent depends on being able to hear." Is Exnicios saying "Music" = "wonderful melodies," and the other stuff - rock, hip-hop, everything else - is noise? Maybe, but the overall language sounds more like that of someone who's speaking in platitudes, someone for whom music is part of an abstract sense of civic pride rather than a genuine part of his social and personal life. That's all speculation since I don't know Exnicios, but the simple equation of music and melody sets off all kinds of red flags.
It's certainly possible to love music and dislike noise, but those holding that position should recognize that the people affected by their campaign are those who make the music they love. Is this a version of hate the sin/love the sinner? When they claim to be the pro-music dog in this hunt, the proposal sounds phony and invites suspicion that it's part of a larger, nefarious plot.
Some of the proposals are problematic, particularly the provision for public notification and comment before granting Mayoralty permits that allow live entertainment. The whole of New Orleans has a vested interest in live music, particularly in smaller venues. In those spaces, the city offers an intimate musical experience that doesn't happen elsewhere, and it's fair to wonder if, left to their own devices, any neighborhood would allow another live music venue. It doesn't take a stretch of the imagination to conceive of Carrollton residents supporting Jimmy's as long as it was located near The Howlin' Wolf. Putting decisions that affect the city's life blood in the hands of the neighborhoods could hurt all of us while the residents protect their property values.
The announcement has some upsides, though. For supporters of live music, the terms of the discussion have been set. If taken at their word, opponents aren't against music; they're against volume. Figure out how to address volume and you stop the complaints. The other lesson addresses tactics. While supporters of live music have fought the city and filled Facebook with gotcha irony and invective, the anti-noise activists quietly made political allies, all of whom are connected to their council people. In short, the anti-noise forces have a much better ground game than the live music activists because they're far better focused on their goals and how to achieve them.
These Seven Essential Items underscores the downfall of potential downfall of Mayor Landrieu's administration's preferred Coordinator-in-Chief posture. Instead of framing the conversation and establishing certain basics - live music is first among equals, for instance - it gets parties to the table or lets them work out their own disputes. So far, that often means the more politically savvy roll their opponents, even against what's in the city's best interests.
Your Spilt Milk
Speaking of noise, nearly all of the busses I have off-handedly measured with my own decibel meter register at least 70+ decibels on average -at bus stop / avg 30 seconds- and around 75-80+ dec when pulling away. I remember one bus, at stoplight Royal/Franklin, registered 105 decibels for the duration of the light and 115 pulling away, from 15-20 ft away, --btw across the street from recently music-banned Mimi's.
Walking down Decatur Street from Esplanade to Canal during FQF, decibel readings were lowest (65-70 dec) at Molly's, Loudest between St. Louis/Conti, with Decatur/Canal registering a constant 85-90 dec. BTW most of the stages registered a fairly comfortable 80-90 decibels at about 40ft, but the Zydeco Stage really sucked due to placement. My grrrrl, Mia Borders, did hit 110 decibels *briefly* by the river, but I don't think anyone would complain given the crescendo of it all.
Shirley you get my drift here.
Thanks.
I contemplated addressing the dB levels proposed by the associations because the numbers looked low (and because I'm suspicious of all roll-back-the-clock efforts), but I couldn't pull together numbers I could lean on comfortably with a newborn in one hand and let that piece of this conversation go for now. Thanks for picking up my slack.
Hey, yer'welcome. I came about it honestly as they say. Remember when those two cops were cruising the Quarters to extort street musicians back when Jackie Clarkson was humpin this noise ordinance crapo'lay? Maybe 2003 or 04? They ticketed me and dog Flora at corner of St Louis/Royal at 8;30pm., fined me $100. All that shit. I don't know whether it was dog Flora or not having a Bank Card in my wallet (they asked) that saved me from OPP.
I wrote it into a lyric in a song about faking the Death of Socrates.
It goes something like this... hehehe
I axed my momma could find me
a pair of black cowboy boots to take the stage,
in any neighborhood, on any crowded street,
at any antique doorway
wherever The People freely meet.
---Lest they bust me playing music in the city that care forgot
---and fine me a hundred dollars and say they better not
---find me playing music in the Quarters after dark
---AND THAT GOES FOR YER'LITTLE DOG, FLO'RA
---AND THAT GOES FOR YER'LITTLE DOG TOO.
Glad to see you addressing this Alex. Enforcement of metered levels never works for the very reasons being pointed out. City life is constantly filled with excessive noise of all types. The people going after music never seem to talk about those 8 am jackhammers that can be heard all over town. Sirens and horns are constant sources of irritation. The roosters in Rosalie Alley probably crack the accepted db limit! And let's not even talk about the constant sound of heavy trucks pounding across our distressed roads. Music is an easy target that is not simply about db levels -- it's really an attack on lifestyles that rich people instinctively want to crush. It is in fact class warfare and that battle is being intensified on every front available to those with the money to buy power. That's what's really happening in the transactions between right wing activists and politicians. You call it a ground game but it's not, it's an influence peddling game. The ground game is about people in numbers expressing their needs in public, not behind closed doors. Let's face it, its not really about music, or noise. If you really want quiet you're going to have to move to the country and hope there's no fracking going on in your neighborhood.
"You call it a ground game but it's not, it's an influence peddling game. The ground game is about people in numbers expressing their needs in public, not behind closed doors." - I know what you're saying, and fighting influence is a legitimate fight, but it's one that has likely been going on since the beginning of the country, and other governments have dealt with it since the dawn of time. It's one you can fight, but there's a good chance that a lot of incursions into the nature of New Orleans' nightlife will take place before you make any meaningful headway. The choice is whether you want to fight the grand fight, which needs to be fought, no question, or do you want to narrow the fight down to one that might be winnable.
I can only speak for myself, but from me: John, you're full of it. You're actually going to play the classism card about some bands and dj's just being too loud? Sure, it's an attack on lifestyles, but to the tune of why does person A's lifestyle allow them to intrude upon person B's lifestyle. Your stance is shockingly puerile considering your position at Offbeat and frankly embarrassing considering how with it Alex usually is by comparison about most matters. Class warfare? You make Jan Ramsey seem sane.
I have to support John in this. It's about much more than bands and DJ's being too loud. It's about a small but well-connected and well-financed group wanting to remake the FQ and the city the way they want it. And using underhanded methods like coming up with a sham 'neighborhood coalition' that doesn't exist. It's about CORRUPTION as always. It's about abusing money, power and influence to bring about economic cleansing. It's about speculators and 'entrepreneurs' artificially driving up property values to drive out the poor and lower middle class ( same thing that caused the Great Recession!). It's about well-financed newcomers and carpetbaggers sucking all the oxygen out of the economy for themselves, getting the best jobs, apartments, grants etc before moving on to their next target city. It's about the poor getting screwed as always. It's about many brilliant but struggling musicians eking out a living playing music who, if this lunacy passes, won't be able to anymore. It's about neighborhood association overreach. It's about that and so much more. Ultimately it's about GREED. As always. This same pattern has happened in New York, in San Francisco, and it's happening here.
One thing this is NOT about is noise.
You wanna call that 'playing the classism card', fine. I call it being honest and seeing clearly. And thank god for Offbeat and people like Jan Ramsey who are tireless advocates for the local music scene. Jan Ramsey sounds a hell of a lot saner than Stuart Smith.
Really, Phil? Thanks for your tin-foil-hat honesty. It's not just about too many clubs and bands pushing the envelope in the vacuum of leadership, and so now the lever of balance is naturally tilting back the other direction to keep it in check? You're right it's about greed, the greed of some club owners and bands and dj's, willing to alienate their neighbors for a few bucks. You can play the conspiracy game like John, but you both would have to blind (and deaf) to not see that there has been an overreach with volume post-Katrina. Frankly, I think most in New Orleans sit where I sit, equally confounded and turned off by the VCPORA's stance as much as those by people like Jan Ramsey. Both extremist camps are nutty, yes. And, be careful in vouching for Jan Ramsey's sanity.
You just gave me a great idea for a song title: tin foil hat or crystal ball?
However, feel free to have the last word. I have no intention of starting an online shouting match.
Oh yes, it becomes an "online shouting match" when someone disagrees with you. Occam's Razor, Phil. Sometimes it's a simple matter. Can it just be that or is it too much of a shock to your system that your friends and neighbors think some clubs are just too loud? Do you get that people like you hurt your own cause by being so unreasonable about sound levels? By the way, I've been playing nice. I didn't even say a word about the caliber of your songs, and I won't other than to say that your music is so dorky and white that you make Davis Rogan look like Lil' Wayne.
You come in to conversation and call John full of it and Phil tin-foil-hat crazy, then seem surprised that the rhetoric escalates. I'm not sure what you expected, but it's hard to imagine how things weren't going to go that way.
I'll be more likely to buy your argument about the greedy bands and DJs if you can point out to me the bands playing the Bywater and French Quarter that are getting rich (or even passably flush) on those gigs.
If both John and Phil are going to throw around conspiracy theories, never considering that in actually some clubs just have the music too loud and are bad neighbors, then yes, they should be called on it. I misspoke on greediness. It's obviously the club owners, not the bands.
Phil...
Agreed that the issue is NOT about the noise or music. The fact that the "coalition" itself includes neighborhood associations who have not actually joined is just one problem. In the 1990s, an anti-noise movement changed the Treme neighborhood by targeting the live music venues, which adversely affected businesses and an entire community.
I really fear very deeply that this is very similar to that. And once an ordinance like that passes it would be much much harder to do anything about it. It's a blunt instrument to potentially shut down ANY live music venue and it would threaten the livelihoods of many, if not most, musicians. Even those who tour and play festivals etc rely to some extent on these smaller shows to fill gaps in their income. Sometimes a $50 gig is better than nothing! Lord knows it's hard enough as it is for musicians do make a living doing what they were born to do. There is absolutely no reason to make it harder still...ESPECIALLY considering music is the reason flock to this town!
THANK YOU for this article.
Thank you for writing this. I think it is very important to speak to each neighborhood association in the "Coalition." The Faubourg Marigny Improvement Association in particular may not actually be supporting the current Seven Point Plan.
Good point. Thanks for the tip.
Alex, as always, I appreciate your approach to this issue, but really wish you'd chosen a different straw man than the Carrollton residents around Jimmy's. By all accounts -- theirs, Anselmo's, his lawyer's -- they support Jimmy's opening in his original location. The sticking point in the conversation last I checked in was that they want the club to be 21+ to separate it from the Frat House but frankly they have said they used to go to Jimmy's back in the day and want it back. To use them as your example of the "Not In My Backyard" attitude when they are basically saying the opposite of that is really unfair.
Robert - Thanks for setting me straight. That wasn't my impression, but you've covered the Jimmy's story at Uptown Messenger far more closely than I have. I stand by the larger point, but I regret mischaracterizing the Carrollton residents who support Jimmy's reopening in its historic location.
http://www.thepetitionsite.com/407/802/562/new-orleans-neighborhood-asso...
Why have the very people these proposed noise ordinance laws would affect greatly not been invited to join this discussion? We deserve a place at this table. PLEASE SIGN AND SHARE! The above link is a petition asking to bring musicians and venue owners into this conversation.
I just watched a debate on My54 between Justin Winch from the 'association' that's proposing this BS, and Glenn Andrews. This is becoming more and more suspect the more I read about it. WHO are these so-called neighborhood associations? Who the hell is "Neighbors First for Bywater"? It really seems that people like this concoct up these phantom neighborhood associations to give the appearance of legitimacy to their crap. What's even more aggravating is that the City Council buys this stuff. Or do they?
A deep pocketed lawyer with an agenda against live music that goes back a long way can recruit a handful of newbie cranks from around town and cobble together a phony list of associations purporting to represent various communities, issue a press release and get all kinds of attention from press and politicians. It's an old trick used by moneybags to promote private over public interests. When we had real news organizations in this city a savvy editor would either spike the release or assign a reporter to find out the real story. This reality sadly no longer applies to New Orleans. Our newspapers and magazines have turned into rumor-driven social web sites concerned with trivia and personality journalism or outright trade publications. The politicians, as ever, are only interested in the money. So actual news and reportage about the real issues we face no longer exists. All we have is commentary and pontification. And, of course, street response from actual residents expressing themselves in the only way left for them. Look at what happened last night in the Texas capitol. The only avenue apparently left for democracy for women in that state trying to defend their constitutional health care rights was to obstruct the vote by mass civil disobedience. Yesterday the supreme court attempted to set minority suffrage back 100 years with the stroke of a pen. If you think advocating reasoned exchange on blogs is going to change any of this you're going to end up screwed. The only real answer until more responsible parties step up and start doing their jobs is for people to take it to the streets.
Amen, John Swenson. We have been very concerned with what we're calling "neighborhood organization over-reach". NSCAN is a fine example of a neighborhood association that appealed to the BNA to appeal to NORDC before even holding a public meeting. We had to actually ask the BNA and watch a recording of an old city council meeting to figure out how NORDC decided not to allow dogs in the redevelopment of Markey Park. FYI: rumor has it that one reason an off-leash dog area is now being considered is that the TPL wants to avoid the publicity of a protest at Markey Park.
John, the lack of media coverage over the music issue and other issues that we see as related leaves the public in a sorry state. When Save Markey Park was meeting with the BNA and NORDC about having an off-leash dog area, some of our own bloggers covered the story because other local outlets didn't have the staffing to do so. We really respect the work a lot of our local journalists do, but sometimes it's hard to find someone who has the time to write about every issue. The "anti-noise" group has chosen an issue that most people are concerned with nationally, and we hope the local news coverage continues. This should be national news.
We've known for a long time that we had to create our own media outlets. Combined with face to face outreach and civil disobedience, hopefully we will get somewhere. We're look forward to "taking it to the streets" and creating our own media when we have to.
We'll be happy to discuss any of this with you at our meeting tomorrow night - it's a public meeting. 6:30 pm. Email us for deets at bywaterrising@gmail.com
I don't disagree...but I think it's also crucial that the information gets out there. The reporter for my54 clearly wasn't buying Justin's arguments, but she did buy the 'neighborhood association' bit, calling it at one point 'a very large organisation'. I think it's crucial for folks to know that this is NOT the case. Incidentally Justin Winch is a clerk for Stuart Stag Law firm. It's very important for people to know that this really does seem to be a one man crusade NOT the neighborhood effort that he's trying to sell it as.
Also, "coalition chair" Nathan Chapman is the owner of a marketing firm. Hired by Stuart Smith? This is SOOO transparent. All you need to do is google some of these folks and you know exactly what's going on.
Phil - This is good information, but in a way, it's also part of the problem. We know the city is interested in a noise ordinance and a group is proposing a noise ordinance. People can work to create a more music and culture-friendly version, or they can point out the countless ways the other side's gaming the system. Which is likely to be more productive? John and I have talked about this before via email - think through what you want. If you want to right and righteous, that's easy. If you want a fight, that's easy. If you want a win, that takes focus, even when there are countless fascinating, maddening details like these.
Agreed, and obviously what we need is a win. It's also frustrates me that it seems we're always REacting instead of acting. I think ultimately what's needed is a platform of demands-or fair compromises if you want to call it that-from the music community to City Hall. I've been advocating for that from the very beginning. The problem is we're financing well-financed and well-organised individuals and organisations-whatever they may be, who have the time and the resources to plan this stuff carefully and are well equipped to promote it and put it in front of the right people. The music community isn't nearly that well organized, although I think MACCNO is an awesome initiative. So IMHO unfortunately this needs to be by necessity a two-pronged endeavor. The music community needs to be PROactive and approach City Hall as a united front, with a clear set of demands or whatever you want to call it, while at the same time fighting off efforts like this so-called noise ordinance. Or put another way: you have to put out the fire first. It would be disastrous IMO if this thing was to pass and devastating for the live music scene. And so that's why I think it's important to at least take some of the wind out of their sails. I really don't think figuring out exactly who this 'coalition' is a detail. I think it's crucial because they are getting away with claiming a legitimacy that they absolutely don't HAVE. And that same bogus legitimacy gives them access to City Hall and obviously their goal is to influence public opinion in their favor claiming to 'represent' 'neighborhoods'. Which they DON'T.
I don't disagree with you but unfortunately I think this is a complicated and multi-faceted fight that will take a lot to win.
PS I need to get more personally involved because so far my commitment consists of posting on the internet!
PS2 We already have a fight! It wasn't started by the music community!
One of the most important things in that post is the idea of doing something other than posting on the Internet. One concern I have about net-related activism is how posting on Facebook, sharing tweets and sending emails can be the end of action instead of the start. It's easy to spend a lot of energy and time speaking to the converted instead of building new, valuable coalitions and developing strategies more likely to reach specific targets. If people put the same effort into a ground game that they put into the web game, the live music supporters would be farther along.
Agreed, and guilty as charged!
Thanks for the research Phil. Too bad our "news" organizations find it beyond their capabilities to do the same thing.
Alex I applaud your call for comity and intelligent discourse. If we were all 18th century philosophers we could probably come to some agreement on these issues in the manner you frame them. But this is clearly not about noise, nor is it ultimately about a noise ordinance. It is an attack by a single wealthy megalomaniac on the lifestyle choices of the majority of New Orleans residents today and the countless ghosts of the ancestors who've lived here. Urban landscapes are filled with harsh and disagreeable noises; and with people who work at all hours of the day and have different needs in terms of having their "quality of life" obstructed. Lawyers may work nine to five but many service industry workers work at night and their sleep is disrupted by construction and traffic noises. There is simply no way to create a "noise ordinance" that is fair to an actual urban populace it is supposed to apply to. We have seen this demonstrated over and over in other cities. It is a smokescreen to stop public demonstrations of enjoyment, live music in bars, and particularly street musicians. The harridan behind this attack has personally blocked friends of mine from continuing to have music in the spacious backyard of their French Quarter club, a place that had live music a generation ago. The general attack against the populace that this has escalated into leaves most of the public with no legitimate means to counter the enormous power of the wealthy interests they're matched against. The only real way their voices can match the monied interests opposing them in what amounts to a rigged civics game is to exercise their constitutional right to assembly and rally in the street. In terms of bringing attention to their needs, nonviolent protest and civil disobedience is the only answer. I am not in support of the so-called anarchists who want such demonstrations to turn into violent clashes with the police. The people need to express their voice in ways that a corrupt and completely gamed system cannot ignore. I repeat, this is not about noise or noise ordinances. If you have enough money you can make all the noise you want in New Orleans. All you have to do is look at the way the NBA and NFL commandeered the French Quarter for weeks of ear splitting (and I might add not New Orleans) music to promote their products. This is an attack by the rich and privileged against the poor and powerless. And it's not going to stop at "noise" either.
The city council has repeatedly sided with the monied interests because they are bought out by campaign contributions. This is a rigged game, just like the phony property reassessments, the doubling of Entergy bills, the millage fiasco and the proposed Sewerage and Water Board increases. The city wants the poor and middle class to move out. They will never deal fairly unless the mayor himself intervenes. We all know what the chances of getting a fair deal from Baton Rouge are.
Ok, the Broadmoor Improvement Association supposedly is one of the neighborhood organisations supporting this ordinance. Well here is their reply to a question form me on their facebook wall...
"Hey Phil, one of our members mistakenly gave their consent to include BIA in this proposal, but our board never voted on it, so we have requested that the BIA endorsement be removed from their materials. Thanks bringing it to our attention."
It's in the comments section on their facebook wall.
https://www.facebook.com/broadmoor.improvement?hc_location=stream
Glad to hear people are questioning the neighborhood associations who are supposedly on board with this "coalition." For the people who are not musicians but appreciate live music and want to hear it in their neighborhoods, this is a good way to get informed and involved.
I just found out from reading the comments on Nathan Chapman's article for nola.com that the same pattern has been repeated with at least 4 other neighborhood associations. Clearly this 'neighborhood coalition' is nothing of the sort.
I find all this somewhat ironic, in that if the anti-noise (music) coalition forces actually succeed, many music clubs will shutter. That will deprive the city of a much needed tax source, thereby putting renewed emphasis on re-assessing property values in NOLA in order for the city to pay its bills. My suspicion is that the majority of the anti-music coalition, are the same folks who wanted to torch the assessor after he recently re-assesed property values.
Alex, my reply to your nola.com comment: I don't know, Alex. I don't see the expectation that Bourbon St. clubs turn down or that, for example, St. Roch Tavern can't have a dj blasting bounce and gutterpunks out yelling all over the neutral ground until Sunday sun-up a bad thing. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't see how this at all impacts when I go out to see people like John Boutte, Royal Roses, Panorama Jazz Band, Irvin Mayfield, Meschiya Lake, Davell Crawford, Kermit Ruffins, and so many others. How is it that the best musicians in this city, some of the best in the world, that I've just named, have no problems with their levels being ideal for the club and not out of hand, but the cover bands, and lesser bands, and some dj's have to have ridiculously loud music? This is rough and not quite right, but the impression I have (call it the Bourbon Street Principle) is that the lower the quality of music, the louder it is.
Josie,
You're comment is interesting because of the emphasis you've placed on the musicians as opposed to on the venues. Since "quality" is subjective, it's pointless to debate whether or not it's the quality of music that determines the response to its decibel. At earlier points in their careers, the musicians you list above were considered "lesser bands," but they were able to develop their talents in a city that nurtures and embraces music. Attributing the shutdown of clubs/venues to "quality of music" is short-sighted. As Matt Sakakeeny, a professor of music at Tulane University, said the major problem is "differentiating between what constitutes as 'noise' or 'music.'"
My interest is not, however, in debating "quality" with you. I'd like to draw your attention to The Balcony Music Club and The Maison, two venues that have hosted who you refer to above as the"best musicians" in this city. The Balcony Music Club was sued by Stuart Smith, and The Maison was fined, and shut down for a few nights in 2012 due to "noise."
The greater issue of music venues and musicians should not be reduced to a debate about the "quality" of the music. This is obvious when examining the venues themselves. It's important to avoid stereotyping and casting judgement based on one's personal taste. I think that's something reasonable people can agree upon.
The comment about music preferences uses the word puerile then goes on to say, acosutic music good, loud amplified music bad. Such erudition. My point is that this controversy isn't about musical preferences at all. It's about neighborhood bullies disrupting other people's lives through legal or nonlegal means. People making a racket all night in front of your house? Call the cops, that's what they're for. It's more difficult to fight the bully who uses his money to fool people into thinking he's organized some city-wide coalition of phony neighborhood organizations in order to impose his will on the rest of us. But it can be done as the nola.com report suggests, and that's good work. You're welcome to your opinion about my mental state vis a vis Jan Ramsey but please be informed that I no longer have any editorial input into OffBeat content although I still contribute to the magazine.
John, continuing to attempt to deflate your conspiracy theories: Haven't you thought for one little moment that some of this pushback on volume is happening in New Orleans and the rest of the country because of the graying of your generation, the baby boomers? The population is aging and older people generally don't want to have cranked up music in their neighborhoods. Would you have thought decades ago that Harry Shearer would be filing a lawsuit about noise and complaining (reasonably) about stages in Armstrong Park with their speakers far too loud for the space? And, please don't be so simple about "neighborhood bullies." The bully and the victim is all a matter of perspective to anyone with half a mind. But I guess this is only a subjective issue for you, with no nuance or grey areas, isn't it? That's why people like you and Alexander Fleming are no better than the Stuart Smith's and Carol Allen's of the world in my mind. Extremist kooks.
I'm not sure that someone who holds the position that music can only be as loud as acoustic jazz has much place identifying the extremists in the conversation. I doubt you're alone in taking that position, but that's radical and would create problems for such scruffy young upstarts as The Funky Meters, George Porter Jr., Galactic and Anders Osborne to name just a few.
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